Stefano Gabbana having sex in public
Brother sister incest
BrOtheR And SiSteR fOreVeR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caxWpq93nQY
Smoking Gun's website sexy and some incest
http://au.geocities.com/smknggn
Jennie View profile
More options Dec 3, 3:49 am
Newsgroups: alt.support.incest
From: Jennie <jcoldstr...@excite.com>
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 03:49:13 -0800 (PST)
Local: Wed, Dec 3 2008 3:49 am
Subject: Re: The incest for Jennie
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On Nov 26, 11:44 pm, arob...@libero.it (Simone) wrote:
> But, dear Jennie does you do thinks of the incest father- daughter?
> Even a father has to provide to the sexual instincts of the daughter?
I'm in favour of it. I am in favour of father daughter incest if the
daughter initiates the sex. I am in favour of father daughter sex if
the father initiates the sex with the daughter's consent. I don't
really have any moral objection even if the father uses mild coercion
(a spanking) to make the daughter submit. My only objections are to
severe coercion, as in a couple of recent high profile cases, and to
sex with children too young to receive sexual penetration.
My experience is that fathers often imagine that their daughters are
attracted to them sexually when, in reality, they aren't. With mother
son sex you can be fairly certain that if the mother undresses and
initiates sex then the sex is consensual. Fathers can't assume that
their daughter consents in the same way.
Jennie
July
15, 2008
Strangely enough, Daniel's wedding day didn't upset me at
all. It was his 30th birthday six months later which really got to me, as he
stood there with his wife Alison while they greeted the guests. I can honestly
say that that was the only time when I felt real envy and wished desperately that
it was me standing beside him, arms round each other as we showed the world how
much we loved each other.
It's not as if I'm not allowed to love Daniel, but the way we feel about
each other isn't something that we can share easily with anyone else. Daniel is
my brother, but since I was 14 we've had a sexual relationship - and that's not
something that many people would feel comfortable with.
I've only ever spoken about this once before, and even then it was very
much in the abstract. While I was still at university a friend had a major
misunderstanding with a relatively new boyfriend when one of his friends had
reported back to him that he'd seen her hugging and kissing another man in the
union bar. She was firstly annoyed at being questioned and became even more
exasperated when she explained that the man in question was her brother, as her
boyfriend refused to believe her. Their loud discussion took place in the union
with an interested audience, until he finally stamped out in fury, still
refusing to believe her. As she flounced back to join us she made a remark
about preferring her brother to any other man, whereupon one of the crowd said
“Yuck, how pervy!” As she sat down beside me she muttered something like “It's
not that strange,” and three or four drinks later I quietly asked her what
she'd meant.
Fuelled by drink or maybe just rage, she started talking in a very intense
but hushed way about how close siblings could be, going on to say that she was
sure that many people experimented sexually with them as they grew up and then
simply grew out of it. She said it was like practising your social skills on
your family and so long as it was mutual, she couldn't see the harm. I didn't
say much - partly because I couldn't believe that I'd met someone who seemed to
be like me - and she very quickly clammed up and moved over to talk to someone
else and never brought up the subject again.
I think the only reason that I'm talking about it now is to emphasise that
I truly believe that she was right - it doesn't happen to everyone but it
happens to some, and I don't want to be made to feel guilty about it. Incest is
so often spoken about in the same breath as abuse, but if you're close in age
and equal in relationship terms then it's entirely different. Of course abuse
happens, but it can happen in any sexual relationship and there's an
expectation that a family member would never hurt you in the way that someone
else could. There's no comparison between siblings close in age having sexual
feelings and contact and an adult forcing a younger member of the family to do
something they neither understand nor want to be involved in. I think incest is
traditionally seen as bad, but in some cultures that isn't the case. When I was
small I asked a Sunday school teacher if Adam and Eve's children married each
other since they were the first people on earth. She just laughed and didn't
reply. Having children with Daniel was never an issue and we were always
careful about contraception.
All my memories of my relationship with Daniel are good. He's only a year
older than me and we've always been close, especially since we always seemed to
be full of nonsense compared with our older sister Jane. She's four years older
than Daniel and very studious and focused, while he's bursting with fun and
light-hearted enthusiasm. I've adored him for as long as I can remember and my
parents were always delighted by our closeness when we were small. We shared
friends and moved happily in the same social circles, so I could never
understand girls who didn't get on with their brothers.
Things changed when I was 14. I had spent hours getting ready for my first
Christmas dance when I knocked on Daniel's bedroom door. It's a dodgy age as
you're trying to come to terms with your developing body and worry endlessly
about how you look, so his wolf whistle was very welcome as he swept me into
his arms and we pirouetted, laughing, around the room, before going downstairs
to show off our finery to our parents and Jane.
Daniel's appreciation really helped my confidence and I was aware of him
smiling approvingly as boy after boy asked me up to dance, though my greatest
pleasure was when he claimed me for the last dance. We giggled home to gossip
and hot chocolate with our parents and by the next day all the finery was
discarded and life was back to normal.
On New Year's Eve Daniel went to a party and by the time he got home I was
already asleep. I was extremely sleepy when he crept into my room and curled up
on my bed, which was something we'd both done for years, especially if we
wanted to share some snippet of gossip. When he started stroking my hair and
face it was a surprise, but I could feel myself drifting pleasurably back to
sleep as he caressed me gently. Then I became aware of his hand drifting lower
and suddenly I was wide awake as he stroked my neck and started sliding his
hand down my vest top. I wasn't scared but I was surprised as he started
stroking me, though my overriding sensation was one of sheer pleasure. I
instinctively lifted my mouth to his as he kissed me and then he hugged me very
tightly and left.
I lay in complete confusion with my mind racing and my body totally turned
on. All the sex education I'd had said that this was wrong, that it was abuse
and incest. But it hadn't felt wrong and I certainly hadn't felt forced.
Rather, I felt that Daniel had stopped long before I'd wanted him to. It was
hours before I finally fell asleep but I was sure of two things - that I'd
really enjoyed it and I still adored my brother.
The next morning it was clear that Daniel had a hangover but as he grinned
up at me from his prone position on the couch there was no awkwardness or
regret between us. We didn't discuss what had happened, but went for a long
walk that afternoon with Jane and the dog and everything felt the same, down to
Jane chiding us about being irresponsible about leaving our parents to do all
the tidying up after new year's dinner.
Over the next few years we had sexual encounters every six months or so,
each time going farther and farther until I was 17, when we had full sex for
the first time. We both went out with other people and there was never any
jealousy, although I found it hard to be physically intimate with anyone else.
Part of that was because sex with Daniel was so amazing that I had no patience
for all the fumbling that seemed to happen with other boys. The sex was never
pre-planned, but just always seemed to happen when there was no chance of being
discovered.
Every so often I would wonder what people would think if they found out,
especially our parents, but it always felt so right and was so exciting that
these concerns were never enough to stop me. Sometimes he initiated sex and
sometimes I did, but in between times our relationship was as easy, relaxed and
affectionate as ever, with the incredible passion of each encounter quietly
banked away until the next time.
I missed Daniel when he went to university, but went to stay with him every
three months or so. Sometimes we would have sex and at other times neither of
us seemed interested. By the time he met Alison he was working and I was a
student, and I knew that this relationship was different, but it still came as
a shock when he told me he wanted to marry her. However, I was more shocked
when he said: “You only have to say and I won't marry her, but then I want us
to stay together and not see anyone else. We could be the old boring brother
and sister who never got married, but ended up sharing a house because no one
else would have them! I know this is meant to be wrong but I've never felt
anything so right.” This echoed everything that I've thought about our
incestuous relationship over the years. After hours of discussion we agreed
that it was time to stop the sexual side of our relationship and also decided
that telling anyone else was a bad idea, parting in tears afterwards.
I know Daniel loves Alison, but she's very wary of me. I'm pretty sure that
she doesn't see me as a sexual threat, but she thinks of me as an emotional
rival and I suppose she's right. It's not unusual - there are countless people
dealing with all the emotions that result from partners becoming officially
family.
I have wondered if there will ever come a time when I'll look back on my
relationship with Daniel in disgust, but I don't think so. Everyone has
relationships where the sexual element has ended but a great friendship
remains, and that's as good a way as any of summing up what's happened with us.
Daniel has a unique place in my affections, as I do with him, and that will
never change.
As an academic I have a tendency to draw logical conclusions. I like to see
a pattern and resolution, so it does pain me that what appears so lovely and
natural to me would be regarded as abhorrent by most people. It's not my
subject, but I would be really interested to see a study on incest done on these
terms, moving it away entirely from the concept of abuse. However, I simply
cannot imagine that many people are happy to talk about it and I certainly
wouldn't put my family through hell by being the first to go public.
Three months ago I met Derek and I think this is going to be a lasting
relationship. The sex is certainly amazing and he's a warm and lovely man, so I
have high hopes for this. The trouble with having someone like Daniel in your
life is that it leaves you with very high expectations, but it's hard knowing
that the one person you love above everything is out of bounds. Perhaps worst
of all is the fact that you can't tell anyone, as his or her disgust would ruin
everything.
Names have been changed. As told to Joan McFadden
http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/families/article4332635.ece
