Matthew 5:28-32 totally taken out of context.Sexual lust, fantasies are not evil. They are a very important part of God's sexual designed

If you only take these verses at face value, out of context,  then they are major contradiction to many things, to Jesus himself and his teachings, to the  plan of salvation, to Gods sexual design, to make changes to the law, to put a heavy yoke on Christians, to make age of grace harder then the age of law, to make adultery about sex and not about betrayal, and many more things. You can not overlook any context and come up with the correct meaning to the text.

Longhenry/Billingsley Debate on The Sermon on the Mount

Ethan Longhenry's First Affirmative

 Proposition:

The Scriptures teach that the "Sermon on the Mount,"

Matthew chapters 5 through 7, contains both Old and

New Testament doctrine.

http://www.religiousdebates.com/sermonframe.htm

Rebuttal

http://www.religiousdebates.com/sermonframe.htm

Ethan Longhenry's First Affirmative   The Scriptures teach that 

the four books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John -- before 

the cross, belong to the Old and not the New Testament.

http://www.religiousdebates.com/mmlj05.htm

http://www.religiousdebates.com/mmlj01.htm

http://www.religiousdebates.com/sermon08.htm

Rebuttal of Sermon on the Mount--Author sees a lot of

Essenes language in the Sermon on the Mount. http://www.askwhy.co.uk/christianity/0410SermonRenewal.html

Adultery? What is adultery in the Bible and what is not adultery. You may be surprise. Men in the Bible had a lot of sex with many women in the Bible. Is adultery about sex or is it less about sex and more about betrayal. What are the different Bible definitions? http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/adultdefine.html http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/adultery.html

The way these verses are taught today, they become  a major contradiction. Then Matthew 5: 28 becomes a major contradiction to Gods sexual design and condemns all males with a normal, healthy, God given, loving, sex drive, which includes all the great men of God in the Bible and today.

Matthew 5: 29-30

Taken out of context, these verses become a major contradiction to the plan of salvation. Do we get to heaven by cutting off our hands and plucking out our eyes? No way.  Do we avoid hell by cutting off our hand and plucking out our eyes? No way. Do you real think Jesus was telling his humble followers to cut off their hands? No way. People totally misunderstand these verses and totally take them out of context and come up with totally wrong conclusion.

What is the context? Who is Jesus talking to? Follows or to his enemies?  Why did Jesus say it? To totally contradiction Gods sexual design of human nature and condemn every male human on earth, and to contradiction the plan of salvation and change it from grace to works?  Totally misunderstand if thats what you think and have been taught.

Do you think these verses were not to his close humble followers, seeking truth, with an open heart? Or were they  spoken to hardhearted, know-it-all, holies-then-thou Pharisees type enemies of Jesus? Do not these sound more like these verses go along with Matthew 6:16 where Jesus enemies would disfigure their faces when they fasted? They would also cut them selves to let open any evil spirits. They would beat themselves up and abuse their bodies. So maybe is that why Jesus said, cut off your hands and pluck out you eyes? Maybe to put on a show in front of the enemy and act like he is teaching his disciples to be Pharisees.

Maybe this was for show to the enemy of Jesus. Or maybe Jesus was walking around talking to different people groups in the open air meeting of a mixed crowd of friends and enemies. A mixed crowd of holier-then-thou Pharisees and humble close followers.

Does these verses go against, love your neighbor, as you love yourselves? Christians do not have to cut off their body parts to cancel their sins. Jesus paid for 100% of all their sins on the cross. Christians do not have to disfigure their faces and cut themselves and beat them selves up. Their sins are 100% forgive by Christ.

Non-Christian still are holding on to their entire heavy burden sins, trying to earn their way to heaven. They think they can earn heaven, so Jesus goes along with them and adds to their heavy load and makes their burden heavier. The one up man ship ideal. As if to say why not make the load heavier until you come to you senses and realize you can not do it.  Jesus says the way of the wick is hard. but also says, come all you heavy laden and heavy burden and I give you rest. My yoke is easy.  You have to look at the setting and context. Its very important to know whom Jesus is talking to, and the proper context.

 Jesus was in the enemies territory with his disciples. He is in a great crowd of both humble followers and know-it-all enemies, so to get away he runs up the hill to the top of the mount.  The disciples seeing what he is doing, so they leave the crowd and follow Jesus.  Mt 5:1-16 was to his very close loving humble followers, then the crowd caught up to them and maybe wanted to bud in and listen in on the private meeting Jesus was having with the Disciples and very close followers. Maybe Jesus had to totally change his speech to confront his enemies that he was surround by.  Can you see that Matthew 5: 1-16 was done in a soft loving voice to his humble loving followers? But can you  see him raise his voice much louder as the enemies was coming closer to hear what he is teaching his disciples and close followers.

Have  you not ever been in a conversation with a close friend, talking softly and then someone comes over to you and you do not want them to listen to your private conversation, so with out telling your friend, you totally start talking about another subject to prevent the unwant person to catch on what you were talking about all along and when they leaves you go back to talking about what you were before?   But this it become very clear to your friend what you are doing and they just go along with you to get rid of the other person who is budding in on your private conversation. Is this what is happening on the Sermon on the Mount? 

Is Part of,  Matthew 5:17 ++ and after,  to his enemies that were budding in on their private conversation? Just look at the sharp contrast between 5:1 to 5:16 and with 5:17 to 6:16 and then it seems as if Jesus is transisioning back to talking to his close humble followers again. The Disciples would have seen the enemies come and know that Jesus was talking hard core at them and then they had enough of this hard core talk, so they leave and Jesus softens up again and is talking softly again to his close followers.  Most all the time Jesus talked softly to humble, seeking, open hearted, loving, followers and very hard core, demanding, to his prideful know-it-all, holier-then-thou enemy who thinks they can work their way to heaven by themselves.

 Jesus said he did not come to change the law but to fulfill it. These verses change the law of old. So is Jesus contradiction that statement, that he did not come to change the law? No way. In the law does it say, if you look at a women that you are an adulterer? Mt 5:28 is a major contradiction to the old law, he change the law.  Would Jesus contradict himself? No way.  But people take these verses out of context and make Jesus contradict his own words.

 Jesus got anger. So if you take these verses out of context, then you can conclude Jesus is a murder because he got angry. Does that make any sense to you?

The Atheist have a great time with this because of the faulty thinking of Church people.  Matthew 5:17 to Mat 6:16 or so were mostly Jesus put on a show for the Pharisees that are budding in on  the private talk he wanted  to have with the close followers. Most of these verses go against everything Jesus taught and are contradict many other things. 

We were not there to see whom Jesus was talking to. But Jesus did not talk to his humble follower this way, but, he spoke very hard to his enemy. Read all the Gospel to see how he talked to his humble  followers and how he talked to his enemies. You will see what I am talking about.

  Even Peter when he was full of pride, Jesus said, get behind me satan.  To the prideful Rich man, he talked very hard and put a heavy load on him, by saying, to be perfect, go sell everything and give it to the poor and come follow me. But to humble follower, he says, Blessed are you this and that, giving wonderful blessing on them.

 When the 70 followers went out  to witness for Jesus and they meet prideful people who  rejected Jesus teachings, they were to turn there back on them and knock the dust off their feet.  There are many more examples of this in the Gospels. Can you see that Jesus spoke softly and lovingly to humble followers seeking truth with a open heart, but was very hard core on prideful, rebellious, know-it-all, Pharisees type people? The Sermon on the Mount had both types of people, that is  why it is kind of mixed up like it is. One time he is talking to prideful know-it-alls Pharisees type and another time he is softly speaking to humble followers, with out any explanation to us, to  whom he is speaking to and we are trying to figure it out. But you have to leave it in consistent context of the Bible times, Gospel times, he being surround by his enemy,  it was not his time  to go to the cross, and context of how Jesus talked to the different people.

 If you only take these verses at face value, out of context,  then they are major contradiction to many things, to Jesus himself and his teachings, to the  plan of salvation, to Gods sexual design, to make changes to the law, to put a heavy yoke on Christians, to make age of grace harder then the age of law, and many more things. You can not overlook any context and come up with the correct meaning to the text.

I feel the Sermon on the Mount is greatly misunderstood and taken out of proper context. Context totally changes the verse. But with out the correct context and proper understanding you could make it say something totally incorrect and contradict God?s creation design of human nature. God designed men to look at and chase after women and want to have sex with them. This is healthy and normal for all men. This is God's design. God designed normal healthy lusty sex. We just need to apply the ?law of love? to it.

If a person (using the Gnostic Heresy) assumes sex is evil and that sexual lust is evil and adultery is about sex and not about betrayal, Then you will conclude that Matthew 5:28 sexual lust is adultery and a later verse adulterer don?t go to heaven, so anyone with sexual lust don?t go to heaven.  Just like it hard or impossible for a rich man to go to heaven. And when you compare the rich man?s wealth of the Bible times  to todays standard, then you would conclude that all Americans are in the rich man?s  class and will not go to heaven. This is same kind of faulty logic being use today in some Churches.

Also with the same faulty logic, Matthew 5:28-30 you would have everyone cut off their hands and pluck out their eyes.

Also in Matt. 5 it says if you are angry you are guilty of murder. So everyone gets angry so everyone is a murderer. Jesus got angry, so is Jesus a murderer?

So with this faulty logic and taking verses out of proper context and misunderstanding what Jesus was doing their, then we are all adulterer, rich men, murderers, missing both feet, hands, eyes, and not going to heaven because of anger, lust and trying to live in America.

Do you think maybe we have a misunderstanding of what was going on there? Do you think we don?t have all the facts? Did Jesus mean to have a major contradiction to his sexual design? Do you think Jesus is trying to put a major hard yoke on Christians when Jesus said, ?My yoke is easy?. Do you think Jesus was putting a hard yoke on Christian then the law was to the Jewish people?

I think we need to look deeper into the context to understand what is going on here and not go around condemning God designed loving sexual lust, which God designed and said it was very good.

First of all you must remember that they are still living under the Law not Grace. Age of grace did not start until after Christ death. The Gospels writing are all under the law. Jesus lived under the Age of Law.

 Jesus at one time would be telling the Disciples or followers about Grace, and another time he would be telling the outsiders or unbelievers about the law. He would talk one way to believers and totally different way to nonbelievers. To nonbelievers----You have to be perfect to get to heaven. 100% sinless in God eyes. This was under the Law to nonbelievers. To believers he said," Bless are you... ". Many of these standards only Christ himself could do. His "earthy" father was the Holy Spirit and earthy mother was Mary.

These verses were not spoken to Christians but to non-believers who were trusting in there own works to get themselves to heaven and Jesus was doing an ?I call you and I raise you?. A one ?upmanship? ideal.

Look at the situation and setting, first it was Jesus and his Disciple and Jesus was talking to his disciples and close followers first part of the sermon is full of grace, " Bless are you... ". than switches to more under law as he started drawing a crowd of many types of people. Some believers and many unbelievers also.

You can see the sermon change from point to point as if he is moving around talking to different unbeliever people or people groups at different times.

Jesus spoke with great authority because Jesus could look into people's hearts and know their motives and talked directly to them about it. I feel that Mt 5:27-32 Jesus was talking to a unbeliever man under the law or a small group of unbeliever men who were plotting to steal and take another men's property, his wife or wives to be their own. They were looking to steal a wife, so when they looked at a wife their lust was to steal her for their own wife. Not a sexual thing. Do you real think the disciple?s goal was to steal another men's wives??? Jesus was talking to nonbelievers not followers. Jesus had no PA system so he had to move around and talk to small groups.

We were not there to see it. If we were there to see what was going on we would understand it and come away with different conclusions and with a proper understanding of the context.

 Sometimes things don?t get explained all the way so we can totally and clearly understand and come up with the right conclusions.

Jesus was under attack by non-believers. Jesus deals with the attacker this way to confuse or over whelm his attacker. We see this kind of action in other places in the Gospel when Jesus talks to non-believes, who was against him and his teachings.

We should not go condemn every human on earth that has a normal healthy God designed sex drive without having all the detailed facts of what was going on. We should accept the fact we don?t have all the facts. 

We have a clear example of sexy lustful thoughts and actions in the Song of Solomon and in Esther and Rehab and King David life, where they enjoyed their sexual lust and sexy life and David was still a man after God own heart. Esther saves the Jewish nation. Solomon built the temple and made the Jewish nation powerful. The prostitute, Rehab, saved the spies and helps the Jewish people enter the promise land. Samson was full of the Holy Spirit before and after being with a prostitute and Delilah and the Holy Spirit left him when they cut his hair. God was not hung up over their sexy, lusty sexuality.

Also if God was hung up with sexuality he would give a lot of sex rules to Adam and Eve and not waited for hundred of years. The sex rules were to solve special problem with a special situation at a special time under law.

We are under one law, the law of love.

Out of the hearts comes the sin, not the eyes. Jesus would have seen their  heart?s desire was to steal a wife. Just because a man sees an attractive wife and thinks she is sexy, does not mean his hearts desire is to steal her from her husband and marry her to be his own wife. He is only admiring the beauty of God?s creation.

Mk 7: 14 And he called the people to him again, and said to them, "Hear me, all of you, and understand: 15there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." 16 17And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. 18And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, 19since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Thus he declared all foods clean.) 20And he said, "What comes out of a man is what defiles a man. 21For from within, out of the heart of man, come evil thoughts, fornication, theft, murder, adultery, 22coveting, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, envy, slander, pride, foolishness. 23All these evil things come from within, and they defile a man."

Outdoors, open-air meetings with a mixed audience are very much different then your average church meeting. An open air meeting with out a PA system may force a speaker to move around as he is speaking. Also there may be unfriendly people who oppose your cause who Jesus may have wanted to talk to direct.

 This would go along with the story of the nonbeliever rich man who came to Jesus and asked how to get to heaven. Jesus told him to sell everything and give it to the poor. But he explained it afterward to his believing disciple to clarify what he was getting at. If that explaining part were missing we would misunderstand and  make a new doctrine about how to get to heaven that would require you to sell all your things and give them to the poor.

 I think we are missing Jesus explaining to the disciple after the Sermon on the Mount. But the disciple could see Jesus moving around talking at different people and they understood.

 When the disciples asked Jesus about the comment, " rich man and that it is easier for a camel to go though an eye of a needle then for a rich men to enter heaven," the answer was it is impossible, but with God all thing are possible." Without the additional explaining, we also may have misunderstood.

Mark 10:25 (English-NIV)   It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."

If we were in the crowd it would be much clearer what Jesus was doing and why. If we had Jesus explaining the sermon to his disciple afterward, it would be more understood. He was not talking to the average person who sees beautiful women and admires her physical beauty and is attracted to her. This is normal for every red hot-blooded male on earth. This is Gods design of Godly human nature

 The purpose of the law was to show that it is impossible to keep. That only Jesus could keep it and be our savior. We now live under the Age of Grace not Law.  Jesus said he did not come to change the law but to fulfill the law. The only new law he came up with was the Law of love. Also the whole law was fulfilled in the law of love.

Jesus goal was not to change the Godly design of sexuality. He did not mean to condemn ever man for having sexual desires or to make all men feel guilty of adultery just for looking and lusting after women, which is health and normal and part of God?s sexual design for us.

Just study the OT of the Bible it has many areas that have men lusting after women and wanting them for sex and this is not evil. This is God's design.

Study King David a man after God's own heart lusted after many women but only committed adultery one time by taking another man's wife and had the man killed. Dave did this only one time and God punished him for it. Dave lusted after many women and had many wives and concubines and a high sex drive and was not adultery for looking at women.

Solomon lusted after many women and was not an adulterer. He had 1000 women for himself. Do you think he lusted after any women? Read the Song of Solomon, he was sexually lust after those women for sure.

Look at Song of Solomon, it is about a women with 2 lovers and a lot of healthy sexual lusting go on and it is not evil but healthy and normal and God's design.

Esther entered a beauty and sex contest and she won. She was the sexiest in bed with the king. Also part of her job, a queen was to do sexy dance for visitors. Esther was not evil, nor bad for doing sexy dances for visitors. God used her to save the Jewish people from total destruction.

The 2 spies when to Rehab, the prostitute's house to stay and have sex with her for a few days, and she saved them and she was greatly honored by them and God. She and her family were the only one that was not killed. She was not evil or bad.

For more info check out these pages:

http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/adultdefine.html http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/sum.html http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/index6.html http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/fornicationdefine.html http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/adultery.html http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/fornication.html

Fantasies and Imaginations

"Make believe" is normal and fun. We do a lot of "Make believe" with children and do not feel this is a sin. We watch TV and most all of that is "Make believe". People read fiction books and others stories and don't think it is a sin. Many people have many Fantasies and Imaginations that they feel are not sins. Many feel if they have sexual Fantasies and Imaginations about their marriage partner that this is not a sin.

But if you have sexual Fantasies or Imaginations or "Make believe" about someone who is not your spouse, than you are doing a major sin. They will go back to Mt. 5:28 (Sermon on the Mount) and show that you are an adulator.

It seems like one verse has become a major doctrine about sexual "Make believe", condemning all male. I feel this verse is greatly misunderstood and taken out of proper context as a result coming up with wrong conclusions.

Healthy sexual desire lust Vs "lust"

If there where zero amount of healthy "sexual lust" or "sexual desire" most would not get married. Remember how it was before puberty? Boys did not want anything to do with girls and girls did not want anything to do with boys. Then puberty hit and what happen? Many changes, and one of those was a healthy attraction for the opposite sex. Why, because of the Gift of God ---sexuality at puberty.

Where is the balance? What is health and normal? What is not healthy or normal? What is sin and not sin?

There are many Bible verses that talk about lust and some are misused just to unfairly attack sexuality and over look other "fruit of the flesh" as being of lesser importances. There are many types of fleshly lust. You could almost make everything you do some kind of lust of the flesh. God created us as human beings, not as perfect gods. There are normal and healthy human desires and wants.

Then there is the sin nature with in us that is unkind, unloving, esteeming self over others, self pride, want to meet only our needs not others needs, greed, and not giving God the glory and praise for all things.

Ephesians 5:

28 So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself; 29 for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ also does the church, 30 because we are members of His body.

Mark 12:31 (English-RSV)

The second is this, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' There is no other commandment greater than these."

Nourishes and cherishes the body. How do we do this? What is healthy and benefits the body.

Review the 50 benefits of masturbation with no negative side effects. The past lies have been exposed.

If you condemn sexual lust and sexual fantasies and sexual desires you are condemning God?s design of sexuality.

If you condemn sexual lust and sexual fantasies and sexual desires you are condemning Gods design of sexuality.

One  major concern about sexuality for Christians is sexual lust.  They feel that according to Matt. 5:28 that if you lust after a women you commit adultery. So sexual lust is a big concern.

I feel that Matt 5:28-30 is greatly misunderstood and greatly taken out of context.

Major contradiction-- verse used by anti-nudist people. Matt. 5:28 is totally misunderstood and taken out of context. look at a women with lust...adultery http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/Lustmt528.html

God designed every detail of our sexuality and said it was very good.  An important part of God?s design is sexual lust and sexual fantasies.  If a person could remove 100% sexual lust and sexual fantasies then God?s sexual design would not work. Without sexual lust and sexual fantasies and sexual desires, sexual hormones then there would be no babies and the human race would disappear from the earth. Look at the strong sex drive God designed into animals. Do you condemn animal for acting the way God designed them to act?  Why do you condemn humans? God designed humans with a strong sex drive also. What list of sex rules did he give Adam and Eve?

Before puberty most children have little or no sexual fantasies or sexual lust. Most sexual lust and sexual fantasies and sexual desires, sexual hormones takes place after puberty. Before puberty guys mostly played with guys and girls play with girl and call the opposite sex names.  Then after puberty and increase sex hormones then boys chase after girls and girls chase after boys. And there is a great increase in sexual lust, sexual fantasies, sexual desires, sexual hormones and boys want to have sex with girls and girl want to have sex with boys. This is God design, not our design but God?s. God gave us strong sex drive for many reasons. This is God?s design so don?t condemn it. We need to apply the law of love to it. 

Do not just read one Bible verse (Matt 5:28) and make your conclusion about human sexual lust, which many do. 

Look at Song of Solomon and all the sexual lust and they are not married.  Look at all the sexual lust in all the Bible and that is not condemned. Jesus did not come to make changes to sexuality other then the law of love.  He did not come to condemn every one of God design sexual lust and sexual fantasies. The Sermon on the Mount has be great misunderstood and has brought much legalism into the Church. If God had a major hang up with our sexuality he would have given Adam and Eve a long list of sex rules. He did not.

Lust is greatly misunderstood and misused by people. They forget God designed it and said it was good. We need to apply the law of love to it. We should not go around with a holier-then-thou attitude about sexual lust, sexual fantasies,  sexual desires condemn all we see.

Sexual lust is not evil. Evil lust is evil. Lust to murder. Lust to steal. Lust to lie. Lust to hurt someone. Lust to hate.

Sexual lust, sexual fantasies, and sexual desires  are not evil, they are God?s design. King David and Solomon and many others Godly leaders, had a lot of lust for women and nothing wrong with that. 

Don?t call Gods design evil.  Look at some of these web sites.

Take a look at some very sexy verses from the Song of Song. Song of Songs is a very sexy and lusty book in the Bible which most preaches avoid or if they read it they change it all around to try to make it mean something else. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/sos.html

One Savior--Jesus Christ, One God--our creator God, One Command-- go and tell everyone, One law to follow-- the law of love (the whole law is fulfilled in one law-- the law of love), One heaven-Jesus went to prepare a place for us, One hell-- for non-believers, One heaven- for believer, One work to do--to trust in Christ. http://inkaboutit.homestead.com/one.html

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